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Hall of Fame baseball writer Hal McCoy is in his 36th year of covering the Cincinnati Reds, the longest tenure for any active writer covering one team. Counting spring training and postseason games, McCoy has covered more than 7,000 major-league baseball games, written close to 18,000 baseball stories and eaten enough hot dogs to give Babe Ruth indigestion.Home > Blogs > The Real McCoy | Cincinnati Reds baseball news > Archives > 2008 > August > 03 > Entry
‘Players Only’ meeting a dud
A players-only meeting a couple of hours before the game certainly wasn’t to discuss how best to divide playoff money shares.
The Cincinnati Reds are going nowhere but to golf courses, fishing ponds and hunting fields when the regular season ends.
But give them an ‘A’ for at least trying to talk out their troubles, an in-house clear-the-air chat that came after they lost two straight to the Washington Nationals, who had lost nine straight.
Didn’t work. The Reds were as awful as usual and lost their third straight to the Nationals, 4-2, and have lost eight of their last nine.
More gore? Over their last 12 games against below .500 teams they are 3-9. They’ve had losing records in 21 of their last 24 trips. They are 10 games under .500 for the first time this season. They are a season-worst 16 games out of first place.
In short, they are deader than Abner Doubleday.
Manager Dusty Baker was correct when he said what is discussed must be transferred to the playing field.
It wasn’t on this day.
The Nationals scored four runs in the first, a couple of extra scoring when Adam Dunn permitted a base hit to skip past him to the wall. And Brandon Phillips was picked off second base with the team four runs down with one out and two on. Later he hit into a double play with two on and none out.
Said Dunn, “It wasn’t so much a meeting as an open forum. And everybody had in-put. Things not needed to be accomplished got accomplished. It isn’t like we’re not playing hard. We’re playing hard but just not getting it done. Trying hard doesn’t get it done, apparently. It’s all about production and we’re not doing it.
“We’re beating ourselves,” added Dunn. “They’re making every single play in the field and we’re making none. Like today. First inning. The ball is hit at me and I should at least knock it down and I can’t even do that.”
And the meeting/open forum?
Baker is not big on meetings, but gave his permission.
“As long as they ask permission, which they did, it’s fine with me,” said Baker. “We used to do that in LA, except we didn’t ask. We just kicked Tommy Lasorda out.
“Can’t tell you who, but a couple of ‘em came in and asked if it was OK and I said yes,” Baker said.
Baker, though, says not much happens after these meetings.
“I think we overmeet as a society,” said Baker. “My opinion. You can talk, but you have to follow through in your talking and put it into action. I’ve done motivational speaking and the first thing I tell them is, ‘I can only motivate you for a little while. Motivation comes from within, but one thing I can do is light your pilot light so it burns inside you.’”
Baker said former San Francisco manager Roger Craig once told him, “Don’t let them have a Players Only meeting because it looks as if you’ve lost the team. I love Roger Craig, but I never believed that. Thanks for the advice. If you feel secure in yourself, you don’t have to worry about that.”
Baker agrees that if a manager says no to a Players Only meeting, then the manager feels threatened.
“I had a meeting Friday after Ken Griffey Jr. was traded,” said Baker. “After my meetings, I always ask if anybody has anything to say and invariably nobody does. I hope that’s not the case in the players meeting - I hope they all have something to say.
“We have so many young guys on our team and they need to hear from some of the older players - like I used to hear from Hank Aaron and like when I was with the Dodgers they used to hear from Davy Lopes, Reggie Smith and me,” Baker said.
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Comments
By Matt
August 5, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this
What this club needs more than anything is a SS, CF, and another SP, preferably a veteran who is a solid 15 to 20 game winner each year.By michael
August 5, 2008 10:39 AM | Link to this
Its humorous to me to hear that Bako handles pitchers well. How did Bronson A, Fogg, Bailey, and crew do when Bako was catching everyday? He did come out of the gate swinging, but we all knew he would return to the Bako way of hitting .230 or less. Lets get a Catcher, Centerfielder, and 3rd basemen and we will be a lot stronger.By MAC
August 5, 2008 1:53 AM | Link to this
Right on Steve and Ridnaway. It’s 1 thing to try & fail; it’s quite another to not hustle & continue to make the same mistakes over and over and not play SMART. That’s exactly what this team does and it’s up to Baker, Pole & Jacobey to keep them focused and playing smart, disciplined, hardnose baseball no matter who put the current team together. As far as Kepp goes, I think a number of players are tired and because of that they’re not as mentally sharp as they usually are. It’s been a long time since Kepp and Phillips have had a day off.By wizard
August 4, 2008 9:08 PM | Link to this
Although he has tried to go to right tonight—and I think he is coming out of his slump, in doing so—a good wakeup call to Kepp would be—Brandon at SS, and Cabrera at second. It would get his attention and create more focus, perhaps. In fact Brandon/Ross and others have tried going to right tonight—nice to see.By Y-City Jim
August 4, 2008 5:33 PM | Link to this
Bako is a failure. His OPS+ is 65. Compare that to Bronson Arroyo’s, which is 53. I don’t care how well Bako handles pitchers. You cannot win with that anemic of a bat in the line-up.By Matt
August 4, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this
I get your point, fan from afar. But the team that Dusty had in Chicago in his first year was leaps and bounds ahead of this squad.By mike cahill
August 4, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this
The season is over. The hopes we had in spring have been made to look silly. This team has some talented players who are under achieving in a way that tends to redefine the words. I think that Dusty Baker is a terrible manager by every definition I have been given to understand. The Reds need a Lou Pinella type who can manage with some emotion and who is confrontational.Baker appears to be phoning it in and I’m about as sick of this season as I’ve been of any. Get a player, a veteran and someone who has experienced winning and let him take charge. The Reds look sloppy and play sloppy and I miss the Pete Rose and Johnny Bench types who acted like they respected the uniform and played hard all the time.By donb51
August 4, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this
Hi Hal, You answered a question on why don’t the Reds return to an old grooming standard and you wrote: “I’m as old-school as anybody, but I fail to understand how facial hair and earrings impair winning.” Nowadays, everyone has to be a star, an individual who stands out, that one little thing that might get them more news coverage than someone else. It seems teamwork and team spirit takes a backseat to individual desires. Not just in baseball, but everywhere. Me, and many others, have asked this same question when we were in the Marine Corps. What does short hair have to do with me doing my job? Why do I have to PT every day, why do I have look like every one else? Bottom line, and no one will understand unless you have experienced it, but this sort of discipline and uniformity builds unit cohesion, and unit cohesion is THE deciding factor in combat. It is unseen but is the driving force for excellence. Perhaps a few policies by the Reds front office that distinguishes the Reds from every other organization might be a beginning in building a winning franchise. It has worked for the Marines over 225 years. Semper fi!By fan_from_afar
August 4, 2008 4:40 PM | Link to this
Matt, with respect, the problem with defending Dusty by saying that this isn’t his team is that you’ve also cited the fact that he very nearly took the Cubs to the World Series - and how that is evidence of his managerial skills. That was his first year there. How is it that he can be praised for his first year’s work with the Cubs, but he can’t be criticised for his first year’s work with the Reds? I agree with your point that Jockety should not yet be held responsible for the poor product assembled in Cinci. But there is always room for criticism. Don’t get frustrated with people whom you think may be unduly critical of Dusty/Jockety or the Reds in general. We’re all upset about the state of things, ya know? ;-)By Steve
August 4, 2008 4:18 PM | Link to this
I can see why people aren’t high on Baker, Walt, etc.. Sure they didn’t put all these pieces in place. HOWEVER, they (Baker) are paid well to MOTIVATE what talent they do have. It is their (Baker) job to get players to play well and stay focused. This team can’t do much right and it is NOT all about talent. I can understand losing, it is they way they lose that gets me most. Anytime a team is beating themselves, you MUST look at the leaders (Baker, Jacoby, Pole). I’m not saying this is all Dusty or Walt or Jacoby or Pole. But they should have the ability to have folks play the right way. As of right now, that ain’t happenin’. I’m not ready to see them go yet, but they do NOT get a free pass just because this is Wayne’s team. We are the Reds! Play like it for crying out loud!!!!!By wizard
August 4, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this
Huber Tuckey sure does sound good to me! At my interview for that thar job; I’m a gonna ask if they’d be a willin’ to hire my friend Huber Tucky fer some post-game stand up comedy!By Matt
August 4, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this
Wait a minute. He had a hand in a grand total of two, count ‘em, two players. Well, where’s my autograph book? Bako hasn’t been near the failure that Patterson has been. Bako has handled the pitching staff very well when he catches, and the players and manager both confirm that to be true. Two players Dusty had a hand in. I would hardly say that qualifies this team to be Dusty’s team. It is Wayne Krivsky’s, no doubt. Again, it will not be justifiable to judge Baker/Jocketty until next year’s team hits the field. Until then, in my opinion, attacks on Jocketty/Baker are unwarranted and unjust.By Votto 4 pres.
August 4, 2008 3:17 PM | Link to this
How long did we sign Rusty Dusty for??? How long till we can find someone else???By VietVet
August 4, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this
All of this discussion is very informative, but I believe we need to ask the person with the most knowledge on the subject, and, has one of the best blog monikers going-Howie Feltersnatch. Howie? Where are you?By Y-City Jim
August 4, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this
BTW, anyone know when Burton is coming off the DL?By HuberTucky
August 4, 2008 3:04 PM | Link to this
Wizard, ah know lots uh folks down there ta GABP and theys-a-lookin fer a guy to wear that Mr. Red outfit and walk around mindlessly waving an a-sweating like a paig! It don’t pay much but they’ll let yee use it fer trick-or-treat and ol’ dustbag will go with ye and brang the leetle ones! Snuffy an Loweezy is a-cumin too and brangin’ Lil’ Jughaid!By Y-City Jim
August 4, 2008 3:03 PM | Link to this
Dusty’s input resulted in the two lowest OPS’s on the team: Bako and Patterson. No team can generate sufficient offense with that kind of drain unless you have the ‘69 Mets pitching staff.By somethingbetter
August 4, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this
Matt: your facts are wrong. Dusty had a hand in this team. He was hired on 10/14/2007. He was at spring training when the Reds had 800 players invited. His input directly effected the final 25 man roster. How else did Bako and Patterson get on this team if not for Rusty Baker?? This is Wayne K. and Dusty Baker’s team.By bob carter
August 4, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this
matt it is very obvious that you will post as much as you want. actually you post about five times more than anyone else and say a whole lot less. what i have read from you is the same stuff over and over and i agree with whoever said that you sound very immature. so please, shut up already even if it’s just a little bit.By Mike
August 4, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this
Matt needs to look in Mr. Websters book and check the definition of concise.By wizard
August 4, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this
Attack less—talk less! Same ol’, Same ol’!By Matt
August 4, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this
Because I post a lot on here doesn’t make me immature or anything else. It is a free country sir, and I’ll post as much as I want. Likewise, everyone else has the right to post as much as they want as well. Also, I have never used hate to describe my feelings toward anyone else on here. I don’t “hate” anyone. It’s nothing personal. There is simply a separation of truth, fact, and opinion. I don’t just come on here for my health or to get attention. I come here to talk and discuss Reds baseball. If someone doesn’t want to read my posts, don’t read them! But I’ll continue to post regardless. It’s not debatable whether Jocketty/Baker put this team together or not; it simply is not the case that they assembled this team. So if that’s not the case, what is the use or rational point of blaming them? It’s like certain folks on this blog want to completely ignore whatever fact or statistic that they don’t like or that proves them wrong and just keep on insisting their “opinions”. Th same folks talk over and over about how terrible and wicked Dusty Baker was for batting Junior third, yet the Reds were 45-44 with him batting 3rd, and 6-17 with anyone else batting in that spot. The same folks want to sit and talk about how terrible of a manager that Dusty Baker is, yet his managerial record and accomplishments don’t reflect that. You can scream and yell that it is your “opinion” that the sky is green. But all that screaming, yelling and “opinions” don’t change the fact that the sky is blue. I simply present the written facts, record and statistics to counter the way-off drivel from the name-calling, personal attack-loving people on this blog.By wizard
August 4, 2008 1:45 PM | Link to this
Why, shucks—thanks Huber Tucky! Sure does make a feller feel good when someone agrees with him, don’t it? Ya probably don’t think I could get a job at GABP do yee?By HuberTucky
August 4, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this
Wizard, you are absolutely 100% spot on! As usual. No wonder they call you The Wizard! Yee Haa!!!By wizard
August 4, 2008 1:33 PM | Link to this
Good points by both Ridnaway and Y-City Jim. I have notice Keppinger is trying to pull a number of pitches that are away from him—ends up doing the same thing Griffey was guilty of when he was grounding out to the right side, when they pitched him away. I noticed in the American League, they are not using the shift against him, and he is getting base hits now.I think Kepp needs to go to right more, especially on close pitches, away, with two strikes on him. What do ya think?By James Bradley
August 4, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this
Matt, you are still a windbag and you still spend most of your time labeling anyone who disagrees with you as a “hate” of some sort. You might wanna cool your rhetoric and pay a little more attention to what you are saying that’s offensive. You talk too much and remake the same tired old points over and over and over, and frankly it’s gotten very very old. People do NOT come here hjust to see what you have to say, although I know you think otherwise. You simply seem incapable of grasping the reality of that and your delicate ego has to lash out each time someone dares to disagree with your rigid know-it-all opinions. Grow up. Please. And do it soon!By Ridnaway
August 4, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this
The problem with the Reds isn’t talent, it’s STUPIDITY! How many times does Jay Bruce need to swing at balls in the dirt before he figures out he can’t hit it? Geez even monkeys learn! And how many times will Johnny Cueto groove an 0-2 fastball to someone? How many times van Brandon Phillips decide he’s going to swing at the next pitch no matter where it is? Here’s an idea….be patient at the plate…make the pitcher throw a lot of pitches early in the game. You don’t have to swing at every strike unless it’s a 2 strike count.By Y-City Jim
August 4, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this
I’m thinking that Kepp’s legs are keeping him from driving the ball. He is making contact but they are just outs (sort of Corey Patterson like, in that respect). Walt has his work cut out for him this winter at building some offensive depth. If Gonzalez comes back that helps the defensive short comings at SS but creates an offensive one. CF needs a prime defender and at least an adequate bat. Patterson is the former but not the later. Catcher will be tough. They might want to hang on to Ross for lack of a better option.By Steven Ross
August 4, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this
I’m not advocating keeping Patterson but ever since Dusty finally clued-in and moved him down the order (what a concept) to 7th, he’s played much better. What’s funny though were the Nats broadcasters after Cory his his HR in the 9th yesterday: that swing’s going to ruin him for six weeks!By Hilliard Dave
August 4, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this
I hear ya rockieredsfan bro. I had the good fortune to live in Colorado during the Rockies start up years and attended many many games. The greatest fans back then, packing Mile High Stadium with 75,000 to 80,000 per game. Never heard any booing. They just appreciated good baseball. Fiercely loyal to their Rockies yet were appreciative of good ball. I saw them applaud Barry Larkin when he made a great play. They were such great energy. Reds fans have tasted success many times and are much more accustomed to winning since the BRM. When I was growing up and attending games at Crosley and Riverfront and developing my Red’s worshipping ways, I got to see some truly awful teams but still stayed loyal. The BRM was the awesome dynasty payoff. A few flashes of brilliance here and there since, but Reds fan want a winner. I know they’re trying, but this gang just flat out seems unmotivated most of the time. Their collective head is NOT in the game at the same time. I think we’ve been extremely patient. After all, haven’t we suffered enough?By Matt
August 4, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this
Huber, you can have whatever “opinion” you want. I simply have presented the facts regarding Jocketty/Baker. They aren’t the facts because I say so. It is just simply how it is. This team is not the team that Jocketty/Baker assembled. Whether you want to believe that or not is your business. But the truth doesn’t change. If you want to believe that Jocketty/Baker is at fault for this team’s struggles, you can. But again, the fact is that Jocketty/Baker did not assemble this team, and as I said, it is unreasonable and frankly unfair to assign blame to them for the failures of this team. Attacking or ignoring that does not make it any less true. Again, the 2008 Reds, minus Junior, who is now gone, and CP, are not Jocketty and Baker’s team. They inherited the squad that is on the field. Which is why I have spoken out against them being attacked and held responsible for this team’s failures. They did not put the team together. It’s as simple as that.By rockieredsfan
August 4, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this
Take a long deep breath Reds sport fans (I am one my self). The Colorado Rockies played horrible for years (I had to drink heavily to make it through each season). The GM and owners thought investing millions in players (Hampton, Nagel, etc.) would buy them a playoff and all it did was cost a fortune and P.O’ed the fans even more to where attendance suffered. However, over time, that philospy faded and under the current GM, Dan O’Dowd (he has made some mistakes but more positive than negative), the team worked to build the team from within. Utilizing and grooming within their AAA team, the Colorado Springs Sky Sox, they built on young talent making way less than the super stars and last year after several years of playing poorly put it together and not only got to the playoffs, but to the WS (lost to Boston but what a great end of season run to get there). Young, hard working talent built from the farm system was the key. Not over paid, under performing players from trades. This year, the team has gone South as have the Reds. Fortunately, they play in a horrible division where we do have some hope, although limited, that they can still win the division. My point, give this team time as hard as we hate to wait longer, but I believe the younger players with a mix of the older ones, and with our growing talent in the farm system, along with maybe an impacting trade in the off season this team can and will be winning. Until then, bring plenty of Bourbon!By rockieredsfan
August 4, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this
Take a long deep breath Reds sport fans (I am one my self). The Colorado Rockies played horrible for years (I had to drink heavily to make it through each season). The GM and owners thought investing millions in players (Hampton, Nagel, etc.) would buy them a playoff and all it did was cost a fortune and P.O’ed the fans even more to where attendance suffered. However, over time, that philospy faded and under the current GM, Dan O’Dowd (he has made some mistakes but more positive than negative), the team worked to build the team from within. Utilizing and grooming within their AAA team, the Colorado Springs Sky Sox, they built on young talent making way less than the super stars and last year after several years of playing poorly put it together and not only got to the playoffs, but to the WS (lost to Boston but what a great end of season run to get there). Young, hard working talent built from the farm system was the key. Not over paid, under performing players from trades. This year, the team has gone South as have the Reds. Fortunately, they play in a horrible division where we do have some hope, although limited, that they can still win the division. My point, give this team time as hard as we hate to wait longer, but I believe the younger players with a mix of the older ones, and with our growing talent in the farm system, along with maybe an impacting trade in the off season this team can and will be winning. Until then, bring plenty of Bourbon!By jsc139
August 4, 2008 12:37 PM | Link to this
Keppinger seems like a different player since he wrecked his kneecap. I can relate. I have two damaged knees and it has changed my life. Perhaps he lost his timing when he was off and he’s adjusting to some pain that he’s not revealing. He was such an awesome guy before that injury. I feel for him, but he’s not helping much right now, is he?By Y-City Jim
August 4, 2008 12:25 PM | Link to this
If this team is going to do anything offensively they are going to have to play Ross every day and take a chance on Dickerson by calling him up. I don’t know what the deal is with Keppinger but he is killing this team right now. Move Phillips somewhere else in the line up and maybe he can pick up his production. He probably should be batting sixth based on that average OPS of his.By HuberTucky
August 4, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this
Here we go again with Matt’s vitriol. You just can’t let it pass and allow any of us have our opinions without taking it personally and just MUST respond defensively. The sign of true immaturity.By michael
August 4, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this
Mike- Cinci, there are some “stiffs” on the roster, but there are some good young players as well. Votto, Bruce, and Phillips are all right in my book. I do agree that we are more than a few pieces away from a championship. Immediately, I think We need a Catcher that can hit, we could use a 3rd basemen, a Centerfielder, and some more pitching, and some better coaches (Hitting, and Pitching). I will not blame Dusty yet, he can only work with what has. He has no Centerfielder, so he plays Patterson. I think CP should not be in the major leagues, but who else is he going stick out there?By Matt
August 4, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this
This is what the Dusty and Jocketty haters aren’t getting. The 2008 Reds are not Jocketty/Baker’s team. How do you criticize people for something that they didn’t even put together? The fact is that the team on the field this year was put together by Wayne Krivsky and Co. Baker had nothing to do with this team, expect maybe Corey Patterson. That’s it. Virtually the entire team as it is now Baker inherited when he was hired. And Jocketty? He came along AFTER Baker did. It is unfair and unreasonable to put the fault of where the Reds are now on Jocketty/Baker. That may not be what the Jocketty/Baker haters want to hear, but that’s just the way it is.By Mike-Cinci
August 4, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this
I agree with many who ask for Jocketty to make moves. The problem he has is the lack of talent on the Reds major league roster or in the Reds minor league system to make good moves. The few guys the Reds have with potential..Bruce, Phillips, Votto, Volquez, Cueto…they need to keep while they are still cheap. The rest of the Reds will get a bag of donuts from another team or Jocketty would have traded them. The Reds don’t need a few pieces, they need a whole bunch of pieces. Thinking this team is a few parts away from contending is pure fantasy. The Reds could do what the Pirates have done with their 2 best players(Nady,Bay). Jocketty could try to trade Phillips, Cordero, Arroyo, and Harang (and/or others) and get multiple prospects in return. He can’t get anything for most of the stiffs on this roster. You get to last place by earning it and no other team wants the so-so players from a losing team. Let’s face it the Reds have become the Ohio/Miami valley version of the Pirates, Royals, and Nationals. It is not a pretty sight.By michael
August 4, 2008 11:30 AM | Link to this
The Reds are very young, and if they can keep some of these Dudes around, should be a good team in a couple of years. It just stinks that we have to wait. These are the Cincinnati Reds, and they should be winning.By HuberTucky
August 4, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this
Gee, couldn’t we have been this bad with Wayne K? Heck, we were better last year playing just above 500 ball for Pete Machanan under Wayne K. Now we have Dummy Barker and Waltety Jockett leading one of baseballs very worst teams and perhaps the most listless bunch of losers in all of baseball. Now you can agree with me or you can be wrong.By Matt
August 4, 2008 11:08 AM | Link to this
I just thought it was an interesting statistic, Hilliard. I just thought I’d toss it out there, that’s all.By Hilliard Dave
August 4, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this
Great quote in the Columbus Dispatch this morning. Famous baseball manager of the Detroit Tigers said, “We should be embarrassed. I’m not sure enough people are.” And that team’s record is 55-56, 13-16 since the start of July. Perhaps that comment should be attributed to Dusty Baker. Another thing, I though we were supposed to “move on” with the Griffey comments, Matt? Sounds like classic “do as I say, not as I do” hypocricy.By MAC
August 4, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this
In a couple of words: it’s FUNDAMENTALS. Unfortunatley, the Reds haven’t consistently executed many all year long. First and foremost, they need to hustle not only physically, but from a mental approach as well. Frankly, our guys seem to be really lacking from the mental side and I think that’s something Dusty,Pole and Jacoby could be helping w/ more. This is a young team and young people need guidance. The manager has to set the tone & develop a game plan AND deal out discipline when people don’t try and execute the game plan…i.e. continue to have terrible ABs and lack of mechanics on the mound, they need to be corrected. Overall, the team continues to make many of the same silly mistakes and doesn’t appear to be developing any POSITIVE consistency at all.By Steven Ross
August 4, 2008 10:01 AM | Link to this
Post Office Dean wrote: what is my problem, I am still watching them, am I stupid or what? Wish I written such prose. Hits the nail on the head! The irony is that I felt the exact same way watching the Reds play the Nats. Why am I watching this sad-sack bunch?By ROGER DOTYj
August 4, 2008 9:50 AM | Link to this
HEY, I HAVE EXCITING NEWS. THE WASHINGTON NATS ARE’NT THE WORST TEAM IN THE LEAGUE—- THE REDS ARE !!!!!!!!!!!!!By Cait
August 4, 2008 9:36 AM | Link to this
Ha - PO Dean. Me too. I think I’m inching toward recovery. At least yesterday, I was able to get some housework done while the game was on TV. I just peaked in every now and then. It’s the first step on the 10 step program. Now, when my NY Giants hit the gridiron again, maybe I can turn the Reds off the rest of the season. Mmm, probably not. HELP ME!By Matt
August 4, 2008 9:33 AM | Link to this
The reason that the Red Sox let Arroyo loose is because his contract made it easy to deal him. He wasn’t making a lot of money, and their rotation at the time was loaded, so they really didn’t need him in the rotation either. He was pitching out of the bullpen, and the Reds needed a starter. He is 56-53 since 2004, which was his breakout year in the big leagues. While those aren’t great numbers, they certainly aren’t bad either. He had 15 losses last year, and a big part of those 15 losses is that when he pitched, the Reds gave him no run support. It’s tough to win when your team only gives you a run or two to work with, and sometimes not even that. Arroyo is not a bad pitcher, he just has to locate his pitches with precision. If he doesn’t he gets hammered. The reason for that is he doesn’t have the stuff to blow it by anyone, so if his command and control is off, he may as well put it on a tee. As far as making moves just for the sake of making moves being a good thing, I don’t see how. The Reds are a terrible, awful, horrible team? No, they are simply short a few critical pieces. Also, they are a very young team that is going to make their share of “rookie” mistakes. This club needs to mature and grow together. That doesn’t happen by blowing it all up every time a guy makes a throwing error or whatever. It happens by sticking with the core group of players and building a team around them. Is Brandon Phillips a bad player? Votto? Dunn? Encarnacion? Bruce? Volquez? Cueto? No, they’re not. But the Reds must build a winning team AROUND those guys in order to compete for anything other than last place. This club needs to quit making the knee-jerk decisions, and take a slow, methodical approach to piecing together a winning combination of players, which is what Jocketty/Baker are doing. I don’t think they need any of us telling them how to do their job, considering the success that they’ve had over their respective careers. The Reds didn’t get in the mess they’re in overnight, and they won’t be out of it overnight. Oh, and a little side-note to those who are still blaming Dusty Baker for being so terrible by batting Junior 3rd; the Reds were 45-44 with Griffey batting in the 3 spot, and they were 6-17 with anyone else batting third. An interesting statistic that I pulled from the Cincinnati Enquirer this morning.By Mike
August 4, 2008 9:32 AM | Link to this
Even though the Reds are an exercise in futility and a sting in the pride of Reds fans everywhere, there is one revelation. Mr. J woke up this morning and saw that his team was not doing the projected needs for a team to be over .500. So, Reds fans everywhere, take comfort in knowing that your GM Mr. J is evaluating as we blog this day. 50 to go, take 3 deep breaths, here come the Brewers!By Pete
August 4, 2008 9:10 AM | Link to this
No other team wanted any of the Reds’ players to make a playoff push because no one could do anything to help them make that push. How hard is that to figure out? Gee, the BOSOX unloaded Arroyo & got who in return? & they didn’t drop his sorry butt on the Reds because they were looking to sign Wily Mo to a long term contract. They let Arroyo loose for a reason — & it wasn’t because they didn’t like his music.By John
August 4, 2008 9:04 AM | Link to this
Jocketty needs to show that he’s willing to try things rather than standing pat with all this losing. For a team this bad, there’s almost no such thing as “moves for the sake of moves.” At this point it’s addition by subtraction. How much longer will the excuse of not finding a trading partner hold up? At the end of the day, it’s just an excuse. Hey Hal, try this: Next time you have a deadline, tell your editor that you’re sorry, but the quotes the players were giving you weren’t good enough, so you didn’t write anything. I’ll tell my boss today that my students’ work just wasn’t as good as I expected, so I didn’t grade any of it. Used car salesmen out there? Tell your manager that the customers who came in just weren’t offering enough in return, so you didn’t work out anything. If only every job were as easy as GM-ing.By Matt
August 4, 2008 8:40 AM | Link to this
You don’t just make moves for the sake of making moves John, at least in my opinion. In order to trade players, you have to have a trade partner. Jocketty spoke of activity around the trade deadline, and said that the Reds had inquiries regarding players, but that the offers were not good enough on the Reds end to make the deal. This club has had enough knee-jerk reactions over the past 8 years, and that’s one of the reasons this team is where they’re at. A GM must have time to evaluate team before they just start making moves. Expect Jocketty/Baker to clean house this offseason and to make the moves necessary to put this team over the top for ‘09 and beyond.By John
August 4, 2008 8:29 AM | Link to this
Wayne Krivsky was fired in April. Ever since, Walt Jocketty has done nothing to improve this team other than last week’s Griffey trade. I don’t count running the AAA shuttle bus. People will say, “Who’s he going to trade?” That’s not my problem, it’s Jocketty’s. He’s done nothing. They could’ve made moves before the break before they lost the season, but they did not. This is what you get when you don’t get anything done.By Y-City Jim
August 4, 2008 8:22 AM | Link to this
We got trouble here in River City: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qam1fbQmA_s&feature=relatedBy AP-FLORIDA
August 4, 2008 7:50 AM | Link to this
I did not watch yesterday, and I don’t think I missed anything! I agree it starts at the top and when Rusty is your top man, you’ve got trouble. Do we have troubles?By disgusted
August 4, 2008 5:47 AM | Link to this
just look at the top to see where the problem starts..friday night our newest pitcher straight from the american league where he hasn’t hit in years comes to the plate with 2 on and 1 out. he had already pitched 2 innings and after dummy sent him to the plate he pitched 1 more and out but he didn’t waste a pinch hitter..duh lets give up and out we are so good with 2 outs and runners in scoring position…the players will copy their fearless leaders..dumb moves lead to more dumb movesBy w.cooke
August 4, 2008 12:15 AM | Link to this
I had to laughed when Baker said they could learn from the older guys. Dunn already taught everyone on how to strikeout and don’t forget his great defense.But he claims his homeruns makeup for it.It’s about desire to be better, which Dunn and some others have none of, as long as they think 220 average,Homeruns, subpar defense and more strikeouts equal success.By Diamond Dave
August 3, 2008 11:25 PM | Link to this
Post Office Dean, I humbly nominate your post as “Post of the Year.”By Brian
August 3, 2008 11:14 PM | Link to this
I’m not watching them. Once football starts no one else will be either. I refer to old Brooklyn Dodgers fan cry, “Wait till next year!” Maybe they can get to .500 next year. At least I have the memories of the BRM……By HuberTucky
August 3, 2008 10:33 PM | Link to this
Hahahahaha! PO Dean, I’m glad you posted that question. I feel the same way sometimes, as though I’m so friggin’ adicted to the Reds. And now it’s gotten so bad I find myself almost waiting for or expecting the next bad thing to happen. maybe we need to form a 12-Step program with meetings to help us withdrawl until next year.By Post Office Dean
August 3, 2008 10:28 PM | Link to this
What is my problem, I am still watching them, am I stupid or what?By bigdoc
August 3, 2008 9:24 PM | Link to this
I agree there was a weird ‘post-Griffey’ malaise. Most of the guys reverenced Griffey and cpild easily see the trade as ‘Walt’s given up the season.’ And they run into a crew of ‘hungry’ Nats, delighted to be in The Show, playing with reckless abandon (think Jay Bruce’s first week!). Helps explain it, but still disappointing. I think we have a pretty good read on what Votto will be—bigger question, ‘Who is the real Kepp?’By ShockMonkey
August 3, 2008 8:41 PM | Link to this
Part malaise from post-griffey trade hangover but still, this team is 3rd worst in the league in team defense and it showed this series. It’s a tough team to watch but I still enjoy seeing Votto and Bruce bat. The team will be built around these two, not Dunn. As for Baker, I just don’t see it next year. Jocketty will retool all phases including coaches. Bank on it.By Hilliard Dave
August 3, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this
So Dunn said, “Trying hard doesn’t get it done, apparently.” Hmmmmm. Apparently? Duh! There is a Zen saying, “There is no try, there is only do.” Perhaps do is a better philosphy for the Reds than try. On a slightly different note, I read a day or two ago that Nick Masset, the new pitcher the Reds got from the Sox in the Griffey trade, said that players told him he was going to “a real laid back clubhouse” with the Reds. Is this true? If so, perhaps they need a wake-up call. Laid back has earned the Reds a spot firmly entrenched in the cellar, 10 games under 500 and 16 games out. That laid back approach just doesn’t seem to be gettin’ ‘er done.By Mike
August 3, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this
After today sweeping by the powerful Nationals, the Reds are 51-61..but as bad as it may seem I was enlightened this afternoon. it was simple, I turned on WLW (You can too) and be enlightned by Mr. Optimism, Mr. Rogers. He says that despite getting embararassed and getting their butt kicked, there were postives and he will speak optimistically today! He must have had a dream last night! But the Reasons are these: 1. Cueto had a qualityu start 2. The Bull Pen is back! 3. Weathers did fine! 4.Reds get to come home and play a contender of the Central Division..the Brewers 5. They had a players only meeting..it takes a day to see these results, usually they are positive, but it takes a day to see it. 6. Reds can’t play worse..got to get better 7. The last positive and the best of all, is we are getting an upclose and nice look at Corey Patterson’s return to the line-up and to Center Field and he responsded well today. His future looks bright! I have only one thing to say..No wonder he selling real estate now instead of still in Baseball with a front office postion!By donb51
August 3, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this
Hal, you wrote that Dust said, “Motivation comes from within, but one thing I can do is light your pilot light so it burns inside you.’” I remember growing up in Dayton (Trotwood, Ohio) and our pilot light went out one winter. No matter how hard my Dad try to get that pilot light lit, it just wouldn’t work. Finally, after we froze our buts off for while, my Dad had to use his charge card to buy a new furnace. I don’t think Dusty’s Pilot light is lighting too many furnaces there in Cincinnati. It is truly sad to sit in a cold house with no chance of any fire coming on any time soon.By Johnny R
August 3, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this
You lollygag the ball around the infield. You lollygag your way down to first. You lollygag in and out of the dugout. You know what that makes you?By Y-City Jim
August 3, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this
Is Jeff Keppinger 100% healthy? He’s making contact but not getting hits.By Y-City Jim
August 3, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this
With his trade value being high, I wonder if the Reds shouldn’t trade Brandon Phillips this off season for some serious OBP talent.By Mr. Baseball
August 3, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this
Here’s a good article about the Reds’ declining defense by John Erardi in the Cincinnati Enguirer: http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080803/SPT04/808030433/1062/SPT&referrer=NEWSFRONTCAROUSELBy rob
August 3, 2008 3:34 PM | Link to this
Hal, You should count your blessings. With the press box being so high in DC the stench emanating from the field won’t reach you.By MAC
August 3, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this
Baker, though, says “not much happens after these meetings.” True; so true. Case in pt. was Phillips AB in the 4th or 5th inning w/ runners on 1st and 2nd w/ no 1 out. He swings @ strike 1 in the dirt, check swing on a ball above his shoulders for strike 2 and then pulls the ball to SS for a twin killing 2bl play. Next inning Ross has much the same AB after CP steals 2nd base; he looks at strike 3. The pt is you can talk about having good ABs all you want, but the key is to have the correct approach and try to execute it. Both guys at the very least should have been trying to put the ball in play backside to at least move the runner(s) over. Instead they both tried to pull and kill the ball and what they did was kill the scoring opportunity. All the talent in the world won’t change that; they have to play w/ heart and PLAY SMART for a change.By Wizard
August 3, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this
It is hard to believe what I am watching!By Mike-Cinci
August 3, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this
Mediocre players meeting together to see if they can fix things will not work unless they have an idea how the players at the meeting can be replaced by better ones. Gosh, watching this operation is awful. The Nationals team would not win the American Association. Where does that leave the Reds?By Mr. Baseball
August 3, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this
Second inning, Dunn has already made a costly error in left field. Phillips gets picked off second trailing by four runs. Mr. Baseball wonders if these were the two “team leaders” that called the players only meeting?By Chaz Hustle
August 3, 2008 1:59 PM | Link to this
First there was Lindner. He bought his share on the cheap, spent nary a penny to improve the team, squeezed every last drop of money he could from the riches of baseball and sold his share for a profit. Now there is Bob Castellini. He is no different, is he? Tell me why he cannot spend 20 or 30 million extra and get some talent-or is he just doing the Lindner, too?By Wizard
August 3, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this
Aahhh, Shockmonkey—funny—and true!By Deaner
August 3, 2008 1:27 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the info about the players only meeting Hal. I wonder what was said that couldn’t be said in front of Dusty. I’m guessing that the clubhouse leadership/atmosphere is not going to change much with Adam Dunn still around… am I right?By ShockMonkey
August 3, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this
I called a meeting for myself the other day to get off my widest side and go clean the garage. Didn’t work. It’s still a mess and so are the Reds.