By lizzy

May 3, 2008 9:53 AM | Link to this

All of our problems are caused by testing…iq testing…and the curved bell

By terri

May 3, 2008 9:48 AM | Link to this

If you want to know why, email me at terriweb@yahoo.com, since my answers are being monitored. Why? nobody wants the real truth out.

By Therese

May 3, 2008 9:35 AM | Link to this

Public schools are destroying public schools. I have battled them for years. The problems is , more parents have become aware of what IQ really is. It is nothing more than (are you able to learn), since all normal children are gifted and most have a disability, Ohio has taken a (let nature take its course mentality). I know because i have had meetings with reps. the Ohio school board members, county members and school officials. The problem: everyone learns different. So what is expected of schools is….way expensive. It is not a good excuse to me. Honesty is the best policy. Every student in Ohio from Pre-school on is given every IQ test in the book…without parents even knowing it is done. (It is allowed on a group setting). So the schools actually know about each students learning style..example..are you a visual , auditory, visual-verbal, or hands on learner…well when you have x amount of students in a classroom, know little about different teaching methods (teachers are not psycologists), (nor speech paths), You have one big mess in a classroom. Now Ohio is mostly a factory state…who is going to preform those jobs?..This is their mentality..I know, again, because I have been told so. It is time for all of us…to let Ohio know…It is not up to them to play God with the lives of our children. They need to communicate with the parents, their childs learning style..so we can help our kids…(they are our kids)..everyone has the right to the persute of happiness..(I am having a dyslixic moment)…Education is taking that right away.( Education mal-practice). Did you know, attached to the students achievement tests are psat, and other testing?.. What I expect from all education is to keep me informed.(so i can help my child(..do the best they can…)..until some kind of solution to Ohio’s education mess can be made…so if my children what to be brain surgens..they can be…or if they want to be garbage collectors..they can be…I want my children to know..they have full all around support.(from everyone)..but the final decesion of what they do with their life…IS IN Their hands.But they have to be given opportunity to develope their potential. Did you know the no-child-left behind act states multiple teaching methods for the same subject are to used in the classroom?….All I ever see is a conventional teaching style. Did you know Einstein was a terrible student?…It wasnt until he married a teacher..had hands on experience that he blossomed. We are loosing Einsteins..because of conventional teaching. Education has rules they have to follow…I called the U.S. department of education about what they are not doing…They are fully aware. My reply from the U.S. department of education was ,(sue the state of OHIO)..everyone knows….but we still have the same crap…It is time parents told their reps and the governor….It is time for you to take care of the kids… Education causes the problems…I blame everything on education…they create messes…and parents let it happen…if you want to learn more email me at..terriweb@yahoo.com Your highly gifted—99 percentile…dumbed-down mom terri

By mario

April 13, 2008 6:35 PM | Link to this

There are a couple of different things I would like to point out — While James is correct in saying state and local funding is not 50-50, the percentages he quotes are from the construction project. Those funds DO NOT follow the child — they are not used in any way for operating costs. When a child transfers to a charter school the total amount of state aid allocated to that child is transferred. This transfer is made through the DPS account. However, DPS itself does not receive the total amount of state aid allocated per child. That amount is discounted by a percentage to offset “the local share”. So in effect a portion of local tax dollars follows the student, even if it is not an actual cash transaction from the local share account. Rick, charter schools did not lead to the end of the desegregation order. It was community desire, articulated in many meetings, which led me, along with Tony Hill, to campaign on a promise to move forward with dissolving that court order. It took over two years to accomplish that, with many negotiations involving DPS, the NAACP, and the State of Ohio (also a party to the lawsuit), with a court decision in our favor April 15, 2002. It is interesting to note, that not many students have taken advantage of their neighborhood schools. I think the highest percentage in one or two schools is in the 30 ish percentile, most students take the bus.

By Concerned Mom of 3

April 12, 2008 9:24 PM | Link to this

I have always made it a point to visit several classrooms before my child/children move to the next grade level. If I noticed something substandard or something that would make the room a “bad fit” for my child in a given classroom, I would put a request, in writing, for my child to be placed in either teacher a’s room or teacher b’s room. If the principal asked why I made the request, I was honest about my concerns. Most of the time, the principal/IEP team were able to comply with my reasonable requests. There are some bad teachers in the Dayton disrict, but I would also say they are very few and far between. Most of the Dayton teachers have very strong skills in managing an inner city classroom… The teachers can’t send kids for an office referral every time they make a bad choice. The administration just sends them back to the room because they can’t get ahold of a parent. The teachers often have to rely on one another for support when there is an unruly child/unruly children. Debra- I think your exprience with the substandard math teacher is probably an example of one of the few bad apples in the bunch.

By Debra

April 11, 2008 11:40 PM | Link to this

Laura, then let me be the first to tell you why my kids attend Pathway School of Discovery. We were in a public school and my oldest was in 4th grade. He was a straight A student at our last school but was bringing home Fs on his math homework. Because we check his homework every night, we couldn’t understand why this was happening. My son was instructed to ask his teacher what was wrong because we couldn’t see what was wrong. Her answer to him was if your parents tell you its right and I have it marked wrong -its probably right because I am not very good in math. Now if is this how we educate our children in public schools then sure I will place my kids in a charter school. I get sick and tired of hearing all negative crap about charter school from people you can tell they have no idea what they are talking about. The principle, teachers and staff at Pathway are a group of wonderful dedicated individuals who deserve better then what they are getting from the comments here.

By Leonard

April 11, 2008 9:10 PM | Link to this

To Charterschoolteacher:you will want to check out the Ohio Department of Education Website and many others to see how Charters really stack up with public schools in the state. To Jim and Rick: you will want to ask the Treasurer’s of your school districts about the property owners share of their tax dollars. They do go with the student to the charter school. Even after 14 years, I really do know a little about school funding.

By Leonard

April 11, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this

First, to charterschool teacher; you need to check the ratings and scores statewide. I’m sure you can find one or two who can beat the DPS but not the majority of the districts. To Jim and Rick: I think you need to check with your district’s Treasurers and you’ll find out that even the local share goes with the student.

By Laura

April 10, 2008 9:24 PM | Link to this

Charterschoolteacher: What three top schools are you referring to??

By Laura

April 9, 2008 8:36 PM | Link to this

“Upset and tired of the same old” is saying it like it is. The only point I need to add is that this has been slowly happening for a couple of years. It is all under the guise of “least restrictive environment” which for a large percent of our students is a sad excuse to dump them in already over-crowded classrooms, with teachers who have had no training to deal with the multiple disabilities that might be in a single classroom. These children sit in a classroom with other special needs children as well as regular ed. There is one para for 10-12 students who could conceivably be mainstreamed in as many as 12 different classrooms. That means the para seldom, if ever, assists in some classrooms. The reality is that many of the student’s parents either don’t know what their options are, don’t care about the child’s placement or they have been convinced that the “least restrictive” environment is what is best for the child. All parents want to believe their child is “normal” and placing them in a regular classroom, without regard to what is really best is not only a “feel good” policy, it is morally and legally wrong. People in charge of making these placements should be ashamed of themselves.

By Rick

April 9, 2008 6:59 PM | Link to this

Laura, I understand that many parents are not that well equipped to make the right choices. Neither are the school administrators. For years they used busing as an excuse to give students a terrible education. They were only interested in serving themselves. Well, along came charter schools and DPS began to hemorrhage students. All of a sudden the Board of Education got off its collective a*s and sued to have the busing order dissolved. It was in relatively short order. The reason? Competition from charter schools.

By joe

April 9, 2008 7:41 AM | Link to this

The Enron collapse and the WorldCom bankruptcy were due to accounting fraud not deregulation of their respective markets. Oldprof says - Privitization and deregulation is a BUST, the free market in energy gave us Enron (as he types on his computer in a well lit room), the free market in telecom gave us Worldcom (as he types on his computer with the high speed internet connection or chats with friends on his cell phone), and the free market in banking gave us Bear Stearns (as he lives off his teachers pension, which of course was facilitated by an investment bank).

By James

April 9, 2008 2:21 AM | Link to this

What a surprize Jon Husted getting an education award from another “failing” charter school. This is truly amazing. Also amazing is that there are so many citizens who do not know how schools are funded. Legislators like Husted depend on you to spred that ignorance. Schools are funded in a formula with some local funds and some state funds. Local funds are generated by schools levies. It is not 50/50 as some would assume. In Dayton’s case it is 61% (state)/39% (local). When a students leaves a public school for a charter school the State Department of Education sends to the charter school an amount equal to 100%, (61+39) of the basic aid thus reducing the amount of the states’s 61% that would be recieved by the district. In Dayton’s case it has been $51 million over the past few years that has been sent to charter schools! Since 1994 the Ohio system of funding education has been declared unconstitutional four times by the Ohio Supreme Court. The Award-winning-Husted has made no effort to help the future of Ohio by providing a constitutional funding system as demanded by the court. Here is an award better fitting of Senator-wanta- be Husted—-“Public Education’s Enemy Number One”! He has all of the credentials.

By Caroline

April 8, 2008 10:44 PM | Link to this

Charter schools are destroying what little bit is left of the DPS. Things have been going rapidly downhill.

By Laura

April 8, 2008 10:33 PM | Link to this

Mr Husted’s statement that Mr. Luckie’s proposal would keep “good schools” out would be funny if it weren’t so ridiculous. Mr. Luckie’s point is to keep out schools that have already proven themselves to not be effective. How is that keeping out “good schools”, Mr. Husted?

By Laura

April 8, 2008 10:27 PM | Link to this

I take exception with the comment that parents know what is best for their children as a blanket statement. The students I have known that left DPS for a charter school did so because the parent simply didn’t like something a school did such as suspending a student for fighting. I have NEVER had a parent tell me they were leaving because they felt their child wasn’t receiving an adequate education. To be politically incorrect, people who keep saying that the parents know what is best for their children have obviously not met many of these parents. Not being honest about the abilities and underlying motives of some of the DPS parents who flee to a charter school is a lot of what is wrong in the first place. No one wants to admit that many of our parents are painfully uneducated and have many issues that limit their ability to make good choices. The complaints that have been levied in this column at times have mentioned how so many treat the children in a “feel good” manner. This is the same attitude that teachers often complain about when talking about the school board and administration. Let’s not be honest about things because we might offend someone. The reason we have laws regarding education is because not everyone does know or provide their child with what the average person would consider what is best for any child.

By upset and tired of the same old

April 8, 2008 10:08 PM | Link to this

A suggestion for investigation, Scott. Check into how DPS is skirting around students’ IEP’s this year. LOTS of kids with health issues, behavior issues, academic issues, speech & hearing IEPs, etc. are not getting IEPs met and the IEPs are being written & rewritten not to address the student’s growth, change, ability or need, but to fit into the # of places and DPS personnel currently available. It’s a fact that there are not enough ED, counseling, & service-providing personnel to meet DPS students’ needs. You might think that would mean more special ed & services people being hired and more ED units being created. No. Rather the ED students (violent, aggressive, out of control, etc.) as well as other children with varying special needs, are being erroneously and illegally placed into regular, overstuffed classrooms with detrimental affects. Teachers have to focus their efforts into avoidance of triggering the ED students’ episodes and on watching the student like a hawk to protect all the other kids. Meanwhile, the mentally disturbed kid is deliberately being placed in an environment which is not appropriate for them - making their condition worsen. Classroom teachers already stretched to their limit of ability are being forced to deal with situations and behaviors for which they are not specialists. Therefore, that teacher is once again placed into a no-win situation. It is beyond stress. It is illegal and immoral. Look into this Scott. I guarantee you will find a story.

By joe

April 8, 2008 9:09 PM | Link to this

Old Prof…I want the school �anti-choice� people to go all the way and declare that parents can’t determine any aspect of the child�s education�including homeschooling or sending their kid to private school. If anyone is so committed to the idea that average parents don’t know what�s best for their children, then that�s the only rational position to take.

By Rick

April 8, 2008 5:54 PM | Link to this

Leonard, while charter schools get the state money that the public school would have gotten, the local school system retains the amount of money raised in local taxes. Thus, there is more money per student. I am disappointed you did not realize that. Instead of making all schools be subject to the same onerous regulations, why don’t we elevate the public schools by relieving them of some of those same regulations?

By jim

April 8, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this

Leonard: It is sad that you have served on a school board for 14 years and have not yet learned how your district receives funding from the state AND from local property taxes. The “drain” argument is just union rhetoric and is such a myth. When a student leaves your district for a charter school, the base state funding rightfully goes with them (your district is not educating them anymore after all) and you still receive that family’s property tax money. In most cases, that actually puts you ahead!Students may choose to leave your district for a charter school, but instead of complaining about that, why not demand that your district do better so that students do not leave? Also, charters are heavily audited, must follow all the NCLB laws, and must follow every regulation that your district must follow.

By charterschoolteacher

April 8, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this

Leonard, if charter schools are so bad, then why are so many rated either Effective or Continuous Improvement. Charter schools ARE outperforming public schools in Dayton. The three top DPS schools are being run like a charter school.

By Mary

April 8, 2008 11:48 AM | Link to this

As far as I am concerned, the following quote from jim’s comments just about sums it all up: “Public education is not about helping to support systems of education. It�s for helping students”. Yes, old prof, most of the time, parents do know better, care more, and should have more sayso about their child than a bureaucracy. I definitely think I care more about education than my public school does.

By Leonard

April 8, 2008 7:51 AM | Link to this

Jim: As a 14 year board member of the Northeastern Local School District, I will tell you that the Charter Schools are draining public funds (your tax $) from the public schools, plus they do not have to follow the same accountability standards that the public school must follow. Even today, the worst Public School will outshine the majority of Charter Schools. Put the same restrictions on the Charter School as is on the Public School and see how “great” they will be. We, as the public, need to get the facts.

By School Supporter (Classic)

April 8, 2008 4:49 AM | Link to this

Representative Luckie would be more persuasive if the former Colin Powell parents were posting that their children are better off due to AG Marc Dann’s actions. As a school board member, did Mr. Luckie support any staff development that meets AG Dann’s expectations for worthiness of public funds?

By Oldprof

April 7, 2008 9:23 PM | Link to this

I want the school “choice” people to go all the way and declare that parents can determine every aspect of the child’s education—including keeping the kid out of school entirely. If anyone is so committed to the idea that all parents know what’s best for their children, then that’s the only rational position to take. Husted, do you support TOTAL parental choice? Checker Finn, how about you? No, these power-brokers are just playing their money games with the public coffers—to our detriment. Privitization and deregulation is a BUST, the free market in energy gave us Enron, the free market in telecom gave us Worldcom, and the free market in banking gave us Bear Stearns. We’ve seen what the free market in public education has given us, why oh why do we keep allowing the Hustedians to dominate the discussion? I applaud Clayton Luckie for speaking truth to the power of big money.

By Rich

April 7, 2008 8:35 PM | Link to this

Um, do charter schools (or public schools, for that matter) HAVE to be categorized as either benefit or bane? Must we always talk in absolutes? What IS a fair question is this — in a time of limited resources, where does it makes sense to expend those resources? Can we do everything we’d LIKE to do, or should we concentrate on those things we HAVE to do — or can AFFORD to do? Beyond that, no institution receiving public funds should fear, or expect to avoid, real accountability. As long as a truly level playing field exists, with reasonable, achievable and equivalent goals, what’s the problem?

By Concerned Mom of 3

April 7, 2008 7:48 PM | Link to this

I wish the politicians would put some serious effort into resolving the school funding issues… When students leave the public schools and head for the charter schools, the money goes with them. When a districts enrollment fluctuates from year to year, it becomes even more difficult for the public schools to stay afloat. Readers also need to realize that when a student changes schools mid-year, the public school is obligated to educate the student without any of the funds that have already been allocated to the charter school. Having said all that, I still think Charter/Private Schools can be good for students. Charter/Private schools aren’t my choice… yet. BUT if the district keeps making cuts that I don’t agree with, we may be taking our money and running too…

By jim

April 7, 2008 7:27 PM | Link to this

Charter schools get the students who are falling through the cracks. Look at the value-added scores of these schools compared with the traditional urban districts and you will see charter schools outperforming them. Of course people in the educational establishment and the legislators depending on their campaign cash (ahem, unions) would say they threatened district schools. Public education is not about helping to supports systems of education. It’s for helping students, and THAT is what charter schools are doing in this state despite being “regulated” by an ODE that despises their existence. One day, this will be clear to everyone.