By Lea

September 10, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this

Mary, I will concede that you may have a point. But this is nothing new - remember the years when “pay to play” wasn’t heard of yet? I’ve never thought sports should be part of school, even when I was in school myself. However, my (roundabout) point was that the parents do in fact spend quite a lot of money on the sports, that it is not totally on the taxpayers. Personal opinion though - school starts much too early - of course the kids are hungry. I always had breakfast before catching the bus, rode for an hour - because we had 13 total buses for K-12 and everyone rode together (another gas- and money-saver). Would also help the parents out with day care if all the schools got it together. Maybe I’m old-fashioned but if parents actually parent maybe the schools won’t have to.

By Mary

September 9, 2008 8:14 AM | Link to this

Lea, based on some old documents from about 5 years ago, the cheerleading coaches in Beavercreek get some relatively low supplemental contracts compared to the basketball and football coaches. Based on this old data, it appears that the head basketball coach would get well over $6,000 supplemental and possibly two assistants over $6500 combined additional- so the varsity basketball supplementals by themselves wipe out essentially all the $14,000 you mention provided from pay to play. That does not include the additional personnel benefits for retirement and insurance that are related to their total pay. The football coach and roughly 4 assistants probably receive well over $20,000 additional supplementals. In fall 2003, the cheerleading coach got an additional $1,354 for fall and in winter got an additional $1,685. I am sure these amounts have probably gone up. If the coaches are also teachers, I wonder what gets most of their planning time and attention - their classes and students or athletes, after school events and trophies.

By Lea

September 8, 2008 8:07 AM | Link to this

As a note, you might want to consider that $500 per child for 14 cheerleaders plus 14 basketball players = $14,000 for 2.5 months of coaches, etc. One sport. Many coaches do multiples PLUS they are teachers. Not to mention that a lot of our coaches are volunteers. Insurance covers the buses 24/7 so there is no extra outlay. OK, wear and tear is extra, I’ll give you that one. However I think the point here is meals. I do take exception to your comment about “dead beat dads” - my husband was denied visitation with his 2 kids for months on end due to false allegations, etc. but he still paid child support. Strangely, now he has custody due to all the crap their mother pulled, he does not deny visits and she is way behind in support. But all the while we make sure the kids are fed and loved even when we are struggling. They know we are there for them. I don’t think our school offers breakfast at all but it doesn’t matter because they eat at home. Every morning. No matter how bad it gets we will always take care of their needs. I just wish more parents were like this - because there are a lot who just don’t care and that makes things harder on the rest of us. (Oh, and I hate paying this much for sports, but they’re court ordered. So as long as the kids enjoy them, I’ll scrimp and save and do what I can for them. Activities build character.)

By Mary

September 6, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this

Teacher, I am not bitter toward sports. However, I have never looked to schools or colleges to provide my sports opportunities, or sports as the only way to exercise. When we played volleyball, soccer, softball, basketball, football, kick the can, or tag, we never had to wait to be asked. We just did it. Everyone played. Why is someone in education not aware of limited resources, the pressing need for priorities for education tax dollars, and the dollar amounts that go into sports for small numbers of students while educational needs are not being met? Why do you deny that this is what is happening? Do you have some bias on the issue yourself?

By Teacher

September 6, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this

Mary… Why are you so bitter toward sports. Did you always get picked last? As for school meals I serve meals to children twice a day in my classroom. Each time it takes 30 minutes with restroom break to wash hands. I only have the children for 2.5 hours so I try to sqeeze in academics during those times. It is not an easy way to teach but if they are fed they are more likely to learn.

By Mary

September 5, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this

Fred, you might be right in some cases, but I would say by and large many families are struggling through several jobs to put food on the table. Read the book “Nickel and Dimed” about some of these individuals such as waitresses, clerks and maids. Some of the hardest working people in our culture are the lowest paid. There are also irresponsible dead beat dads who do not stick around to look at their offspring’s hunger for food and affection. Most of us are highly interdependent wage slaves for food and other survival needs, so it might be inappropriate for any of us to get too self-righteous about why a child is going hungry. We rely on poorly paid illegal immigrants for a large part of our food supply and restaurant services. At the rate we are going with population growth, lousy environment and overly zealous development, we are all going to be looking for food and water and priced out of the market. Food prices are already going up at a rate much faster than other things.

By Mary

September 5, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this

Lea, some additional costs you might want to consider are the supplemental contracts and pay for trainers and coaches, overtime for bus drivers and the additional administrative costs such as retirement and insurance that kick in based on supplemental contracts. Also, there is additional insurance payments that districts surely pay for the after hours trips out of the district for the many events as well as wear and tear on busses. There are also additional costs for umpires, referees, and trainer contracts. Schools make an attempt to show their additional costs for extracurricular in financial reports and pie charts. However, I am sure this is all smoke and mirrors just as it is at the college level. The NCAA is trying to standardize some accounting methods for athletics. Even as it is now, only a very small percentage of athletics departments report they break even. Many do not account for the real estate and facility investments due to big time sports. USA today has had many interesting reports about the rate of athletics spending at the high school and college level. Read also “Beer and Circus - how big time college sports has crippled undergraduate education”, “The Game of Life”, and “Schools that do too much”. All of these books were written by education insiders and two of the authors were athletes, as well.

By Lea

September 5, 2008 7:49 AM | Link to this

AJ - major kudos to your mom. This is above and beyond and illustrates why teachers need to be paid more! Having two kids with meal accounts is fun to keep track of, but our school lets them go up to $10 in the hole to make sure they eat. The system isn’t perfect but if we just don’t have the cash to add to the account we pack lunches, and if they forget, the 13-year-old eats when she gets home and the 10-year-old will have his taken to him. Last year it only took once each of them forgetting! Food is so much more important than all these fundraisers and even the pay-to-play like I mentioned before. The kids aren’t big on these sports, but the court ordered us to enroll them. So we’re stuck. The other extras are what fall by the wayside - cell phone, designer clothes, movies…

By Lea

September 5, 2008 7:43 AM | Link to this

Mary, in a lot of cases you’re right about pay-to-play being a token amount. The “actual” total is $40. Then add $75 for uniforms, $60 for “transportation”, feeding the team a snack and drink during one game (about $25 if you go cheap), volunteering at least 5 hours per parent each season (let’s say they make $10 an hour to be fair), and paying to get into the games at $5 each. During basketball season, for a cheerleader, the average family would pay about $500. The cheerleaders ride the same bus as the players. So the transportation is more than covered by the parents.

By Concerned Mom of 3

September 5, 2008 6:35 AM | Link to this

AJ- The situation of the hungry student is right on the mark in Dayton Public Schools- (more often than a student here and a student there.) My bigger concern is the parental neglect and poor choices on the part of the parents… How can anyone in good conscience not make sure their children’s needs are met? I am talking about food, shelter, and love. There is soooo much neglect… It is a really big problem in the Dayton community. I don’t know what the fix is… Probably not more handouts. Maybe parental education… but the ones who need it most won’t come.

By Calvin

September 4, 2008 10:36 PM | Link to this

To AJ that is so sad. The problem is not that we give foreign aid. The problem is that parents are not held accountable for care of their children. The attitudes of government and citizens has become a welfare society for many and it’s give me as much as I can make you give me. And all the while some people who are working like this family must be to have an income above the poverty level, are left out. We need to stop the welfare to those who have learned to suck it dry as a method and standard of living, and use the same money to subsidize those who don’t get aid and in some cases are too proud to ask for aid. They are the ones who really deserve it. Congratulation to your mother for her caring. She is a wonderful teacher and person.

By Fred

September 4, 2008 9:48 PM | Link to this

Hey AJ, We aren’t letting the boy go hungry- his parent(s) are. They choose to spend their money for other things not his lunch. I want you to buy my groceries because I want to spend my money on new cars, cell phones, cable and everything else!

By AJ

September 4, 2008 6:15 PM | Link to this

My mother has taught in a local elementary school for 36 years (30 years of regular teaching, retired, then returned as a volunteer, and is now working on a grant-funded basis to assist the poorest performing students). I visit her classes each year on several occasions and also hear her discuss them so much that they sound like my own family. One particular fourth grader was visibly hungry the first week of school two years ago, so she pulled an apple and graham crackers out of her lunch bag. He devoured them, hugged her, and paid attention for the rest of the lesson. Several days later, Mom was informed the little boy’s lunch balance was at $0, the parents had been warned, and they still had not added money to his card. As this child doesn’t qualify for free lunch, Mom bought it for him. She then proceeded to stock her classroom with apples, bananas, and graham crackers, providing them to children who were visibly hungry. The same boy asked for the snack (and clearly need it) day after day after day. Yet, as mentioned, his family was above the line required to qualify for free meals. We pledged $1 Billion in humanitarian aid to Georgia in the wake of last month’s military action there. I’m left wondering how we can continue to let our own children starve.

By Mary

September 4, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this

Lea, not sure if I understood your comments correctly, but “pay to play” is usually a token amount and does not include all costs, by any means. School cafeterias are subsidized, as well.

By btlsmum

September 4, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this

I think the free breakfast/lunch is essential at DPS. The level of parental neglect is astounding. But, I do take issue with what is fed to the children. If they are genuinely concerned with making sure the kids are alert and ready to learn, they shouldn’t be giving them donut balls, cinnamon buns and a ton of other carb-laden foods. DPS feeds those kids crud. They need to elevate the level of nutrition and set an example of good eating habits, IMO.

By Lea

September 4, 2008 9:56 AM | Link to this

Terri - I agree about all the extras, but in Beavercreek the parents pay for this, not the taxpayers, with the pay-to-play system, and the artificial turf was paid for by MVH (talk about a waste). A lot of times there is no transportation so the parents caravan and carpool. Then again if the kids who aren’t getting fed had parents who were raising them properly those parents would know that the kid gets fed before anything else, including gas or the parents’ food. Lots of places to go for help. Been there done that and now give back as I can. (Even though I can barely afford my kids’ lunches, I can do other things that don’t include money.)

By a dayton teacher

September 3, 2008 7:25 PM | Link to this

Yes try going into a dps school on monday. You can tell the kids that didn’t necessarily eat much over the weekend. they inhale their breakfast. I remember my first year of teaching. I was at a public preschool in northridge and it was the end of the month on a monday. one of the preschool kids came in and was grouchy and hitting and crying. we finally figured out he had only had one meal the whole weekend. We of course found him food. but when you think of four year olds not eating, you know free breakfast and lunch are a must. I only wish it were healthier than we give in dps—donuts arent always the best option.

By Mary

September 3, 2008 6:48 PM | Link to this

Terri, I am with you on your point. As a taxpayer and a citizen, I would rather see tax dollars used to feed a hungry kid before school and during school and provide on site doctors and nurses, instead of driving them to sports after school, providing coaches, trainers and artificial turf, but school boards and administrators do not seem to have that priority.

By Washtington Township

September 3, 2008 5:31 PM | Link to this

You’d be suprised how this is shaking out in suburban districts. You’d almost be able to use this as an indicator what suburbs are feeling the economic pinch, by looking at an annual increase in participation in the lunch program by district and school.

By Terri

September 3, 2008 3:18 PM | Link to this

Raoul - sounds right in theory -harder to feel the same when the 5 year old in front of you is clearly hungry (dirty, sick, etc.)

By Raoul

September 3, 2008 8:33 AM | Link to this

If educators were as concerned about feeding knowledge to students instead of breakfast and lunch, some sanity might be instilled into our public school system. I went to elementary school for 8 years and don’t think I ever ate breakfast 1 time, and was consistently near the top of my class. The economy may not be roaring right now, but it is nowhere near as bad as doom and gloomers say it is. Pumping more money into a dreadfully expensive and woefully under achieving public education system just to feed kids breakfast and lunch is just another lunatic lunge from the ‘big government’ crowd, of which the Teacher’s unions are among the most greedy eaters from the public trough. All we want is for kids to get a good education; there is enough cheap food out there for every child, regardless of their family income, to get them through the day. Poverty in America is the most over hyped product out there. Sure, many families are hurting, which has always been the case. That just underscores why kids should be given a good education so that they can learn to feed themselves.

By Lea

September 3, 2008 7:44 AM | Link to this

And then there are those families that are really struggling with paying for their kids’ lunches, like mine, but with the child support we receive we make $11 dollars a month too much to qualify even for reduced-price lunches, not to mention my kids don’t qualify for medicaid but we can’t afford insurance. Even the medicaid buy-in doesn’t cover us. It is a good thing we are great at generics and coupons or we wouldn’t make it.